Podcast: How Masterminds Help High-Achieving Women Balance It All
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Veronica: I have friends, some of them are entrepreneurs, some of are not entrepreneurs, the ones that are entrepreneurs totally fucking get me, 1,000% get me. The ones that aren't, I mean, we can kick it, you know. Third, it's just, I should say it's different and it might be different for them too.
Hey, my name is Veronica Cisneros, and I am a licensed marriage and family therapist, a momma of three girls, and married for 23 years. I am obsessed with helping you navigate through the seasons of marriage, helping couples like you break free from feeling like roommates. I will teach you the secrets to having a healthy marriage by providing tools and tips to help you reconnect in a way that you can't keep your hands off each other. Where flirting and kissing is the norm in your household, setting intentional time to date, get to know and support each other's dreams and goals, so that you can grow together without keeping score or judging one another. Where you feel seen and heard, even when you disagree. Where arguments and with mutual respect and understanding where you work together to build and strengthen your family, so no one feels like they're carrying the weight of the family on their own. These are the necessary skills your children need for you to model so that they develop healthy relationships and thrive in life. This is the Empowered and Unapologetic podcast.
Hey ladies, welcome to the empowered and unapologetic podcast. I'm your host Veronica Cisneros. Today's guests are bad ass women entrepreneurs who I am so excited to share this episode with or record this episode with more so because you guys are about to learn so much about building community and your businesses. So without further delay, I want to start off with Laurel Laurel, please introduce yourself.
Laurel: Hi, I'm Laurel Roberts Meese. I am the founder and owner of Laurel Therapy Collective. We are a boutique, all-virtual practice in California, Florida and Pennsylvania. We do EMDR online and other trauma therapy. We also do a lot of couples work, including LGBT couples.
Veronica: All right, Amy, we are in your hometown, Nashville, Tennessee, please introduce yourself.
Amy: I'm Amy Goldstein, and I'm the co founder and director of Nashville Psych. We're a private psychology group practice right here in the Music City. And we offer a wide variety of services from couples therapy, individual therapy, group therapy, and one of our specialties is doing psycho educational evaluation. So if you're wondering, do I have ADHD? We can tell you.
Veronica: Next up is Courtney. So Courtney and I party till about two o'clock last night. She was my party buddy, Courtney, introduce yourself.
Courtney: Thanks for the intro. Courtney Glashow. I'm also an owner of a group private practice and a psychotherapist and we're located in Hoboken, New Jersey and also help people virtually in the state of New Jersey, New York and Florida. I have a group of therapists at Anchor Therapy, I probably should say the name as well. And we help all ages and a lot of specialties like anxiety, depression, substance use, and yeah, we can't diagnose ADHD so have to travel to Nashville for that one.
Veronica: So as you guys already know, I'm the owner of Outside the Norm Counseling. So last year, we all went to this business summit...who wants to go in and take over on how we met?
Courtney: Yeah, I can takeover. I was in Chicago, 2022, I just went to learn how to better my group private practice it was literally for group private practice owners who own therapy practices. So it's the perfect you know, conference to go to I felt and I definitely wanted to meet other people but you know, it's a little hard to do that I think and someone, maybe Laurel, created in this app that they had as kind of like, like a dating app for a current private practice owners to meet up or schedule events. So she scheduled this lunch and we went to it, met each other, had such a great time that we forgot about the conference a little bit and did not return on time. But I think that was worth it. And yeah, I just remember sitting with, I think it was like 20 people, it was just relating to everyone. And it was definitely a great time. And then I think you, Laurel, like someone collected email addresses...
Laurel: Veronica collected everyone's contact info...she was like "mastermind?" "mastermind?", just like pointing at people like "are you gonna do a mastermind group?" And the reason that lunch was so important and why these relationships started is because at that conference, we were in the minority of people that had the same business model. Most people that went to that conference, the practice they were running was in-network with insurance, which like that, that is a fabulous, you know, model. And it is very different than our model, which is out-of-network with insurance. So you're already in a very niche conference, people that employ therapists, and, and then for an even more niche business model to build that community. That's why I went to that conference. And it was very successful.
Amy: That's exactly why I went too. I felt isolated. And I felt like I can figure all of this out. But wouldn't it be so much better to like, have a community of people that can help support and bounce ideas off of and learn from?
Veronica: So in today's episode, we're going to discuss both the highlights, our fears, and what we've gotten out of being in this mastermind group. So I gotta admit, our first, our first meeting that of course, I orchestrated I was late to, I was 1000% late to, and when I met all these women, I was very much intimidated. Why? Because I'm surrounded by a bunch of badass women who have these highly successful companies. And are they going to find me out? Are they going to find out that like, I'm an imposter. And, and it sounds so crazy, because I do, the practice is successful, it's going so great. But for whatever reason, I believe it's a, it's a feeling we all get that impostor syndrome showed up and it was very, very, very much present. I do have to say I was most I was most drawn to Laurel. And I was drawn to Laurel because as we're opening up and what didn't we just like, go straight to business. That first meeting?
Laurel: Yeah, like we said, I introduced like, "alright, what do we all have problems with today?"
Courtney: Let's jump in.
Veronica: Right? But what intrigued me about Laurel is she had all these like systems. She had like an employee library. And I'm like, what? I didn't know I need an employee library, but I need one of those. And I didn't even know I need that worksheet, but I most definitely need one of those. And I joked earlier because I was like, Oh my God, I've like met my partner for life. And sorry, Willie, but I was like, holy shit. Like it was just, I was just so fascinated by like, Courtney and how many clinicians she had, and like, there's no money leaving her pocket for any reason. Like at all. Oh, and then Amy, Amy has this 16, 17, we still...we lost count after 16 offices, okay?
Courtney: She has so many offices, she doesn't even know how many offices she has.
Veronica: We got lost in Amy's office...but here I am surrounded by these highly successful women. And I am like wrapped around in my own insecurities. Did any of you guys have some fears with joining? Let's go there.
Courtney: My-my thing is I was already in one actually before that. And...
Amy: Do you like like us better though?
Courtney: Oh, obviously, I no longer....
Amy: I was jealous of your past one. I was like, I think you can tell she got so good with money and finance...
Courtney: No, I don't think it was too helpful. But I do think it matters who you're with not just personalities, which we can get into. And we will, because there might have been a fifth member that maybe well...
Veronica: Allegedly, allegedly.
Courtney:We may bring up. But stay tuned. I will say that my last group, there were some in-network providers or groups and you know, I'm out-of-network and I do feel like that's a total different business structure. And it's not knocking that at all, but it's you might as well you know, be a dentist and I'm a therapist, like I just feel like it's so different. So my I think biggest advice is finding not even people that do your exact same specialty even but just a similar like business mindset and that your, your goals are the same and financials are similar and you have maybe like employees versus contractors like there's, there's a lot there when it comes to businesses. And yeah, I think that a good fit in that sense is very important. For sure.
Veronica: Definitely. What were some of your guys's fears?
Amy: My fear was because I'm the only one in the group that's not a clinician, my husband is a clinical director and psychologist at our practice, and I really sort of just ended up here because I wanted to help him grow, you know, his dream and now it's just been so rewarding and fulfilling. But I, I'm thinking, oh my gosh, they're all gonna psychoanalyze me. They're all gonna be like, you know, I don't know, I don't know. But the funny thing is, I'm completely surrounded by therapists all day long, anyway, but you all are new ones. So that was one of my intimidation things. But I knew that I needed this. So I was not very hesitant at all.
Laurel: Well, and Amy, like you fit right in. And like when we need to have tough conversations with our employees or with a former group member, or, you know, something that requires a lot of social and empathic finesse. We always look to Amy for that. So you don't have to be therapists to like have those soft skills, they are very critical.
Veronica: 1,000% thing? What were some of your fears? Well,
Laurel: So I was only six months in to having employees at the time. And I was like, Oh, I'm the baby of this group. Like, they're just like, looking into like, oh, well, okay, she'll see. She'll learn. Like, she's gonna see how hard this is. And I didn't feel I, I mean, I was worried that I wouldn't be seen as an equal or seen as like a viable business.
Veronica: Yeah.
Laurel: I also have the challenge of, I am the only one in the group that doesn't have a physical location.
Veronica: Yeah.
Laurel: Which does create some additional challenges
Veronica: Oh 1000%. Hurdles.
Laurel: And so I'm still figuring those out. They're not they're not problematic to the point where it's like, gonna ruin my business. But I, you know, like you said, like, waiting to be found out like, are they going to see my weakness and why I'm not going to succeed here.
Veronica: 1000%.
Amy: I think that one of the benefits of our group is that we're all female. Yeah, there is just something, some kind of safety. I have nothing against coed groups at all.
Veronica: Yeah.
Amy: I just feel personally, I just feel slightly safer. And like, we could relate to each other, whether we're talking about, you know, biological things that happen to women. Whatever, you know, we're very real with each other. And Veronica, for you. Like, I felt like the second I met you, you were like, This is me. I'm imperfect. And I'm
Laurel: Unapologetic.
Amy: Unapologetic, truly. But, but I loved it because it's so disarming, you can just relax and be like, Okay, let's be real people. No B.S..
Courtney: And we shared so much, but it took, it does take time. We didn't start that way. Maybe Veronica did. But, I think for the rest of us normal people, we jump into, like, "How much money are you making?"
Laurel: I there was a point there was a turning point where we did share our financials. Yeah, that's when I was hesitant. That was in Utah. Yeah, that was so so we didn't share we every five or six months we pick a different city and we go do a retreat there. And it is
Veronica: Different state, Laurel.
Laurel: Well, different, a different state. A different, a different place. And you know, it's a business trip. It's a work hard play hard trip. And the mostly work hard because that first day when we were all in the spreadsheets, like I think my eyes were like,
Courtney: Yeah, but then we went to a spa. So...
Laurel: But yeah, it was so our first retreat in Utah, I felt like that was really a turning point where we got super vulnerable, sharing all of our numbers, like how much do our businesses gross each year? What do we spend on software and utilities? And how much are we paying our employees?
Amy: And do you remember, we shared life stories also?
Courtney: You heard stories good and the bad. And I do remember ripping apart Amy's financial, where I was like, did you know you're spending this much on, you know, Apple, and she's like, "Oh my God, this must be my kids, like, on all the apps." And it's like, "I didn't even notice that." And so it is nice to open up in that way where we can literally help each other, catch these things and like better our businesses and our personal lives.
Veronica: So how did we get there? How did we get to that place?
Courtney: Right, it definitely took time and removing a member that wasn't a good fit. Yes.
Laurel: That was tricky. But I also want to say like any success that people have, like, yes, a lot of it is hard work. There's also a certain amount of luck involved. I think we were lucky that we just happened to be the ones that showed up. And we have very complementary strengths.
Veronica: Yeah.
Laurel: So, you know, we have a person who is like financially very strong that would be Courtney, we have someone who's very marketing and branding strong that would be Veronica, we have someone who's very systems and organization strong--that's me. And I have got Amy who is like, the HR like having tough conversations, working with people like really putting, like the people forward in a organization of kind of small to medium size. And that combination, I think, is pretty magical. Because I know which of you to talk to about something that I want to get better at?
Veronica: Yeah
Courtney: I agree with that. But I disagree. That it was luck. I think cuz I feel like if you're listening to this, it's like, "Oh, shit man." [all laugh]
Laurel: [jokingly] Yes, turn this off now, move on.
Veronica: [jokingly] We're accepting applications, $500 applications...
Courtney: I dunno, think we're where it's like 100,000.
Veronica: I said application fee.
Courtney: $100,000 a year membership. But no, I don't think it was left, because we purposefully found a conference that literally was made for us, right. So that's doable for anyone, I do think to find on some level, and then from there, niched it down to who, like we really are, we're out-of-network, business owners, whatever, went to that lunch. And then from there by collecting everyone's emails, I sure you got the 20 people that were there to email,
Veronica: Yeah.
Courtney: Whatever, sent that out, "who wants to join this mastermind, what's a good date, time, etc." And then from there, it got, you know, who's actually motivated and who's actually interested in joining, and that's us, and, and 1/5 member, but that was, you know, five people out of that 20. And then in the conference, one out of like, 150, whatever. So I don't think it was luck. I think we were so determined to find each other. And whether we're extroverts or introverts, it was easy to like, navigate that. And we were willing to put ourselves in that vulnerable position.
Veronica: Bingo! That's what I want to hit on. That's what I want to hit on is vulnerability.
Amy: And I would say that, even if you don't have a conference to go to,
Veronica: Yeah.
Amy: Identifying similar businesses, I am not afraid of reaching out to a strange business owner. And I've done it before. There's a wonderful practice in Austin, Deep Eddy Psychotherapy, and I reached out to them, I was like, I love their website, I love their offerings. You know, I kind of, you know, want to learn from them. And I spent some time talking to one of the owners, and they actually in their town, all the therapy practice owners kind of have their own group. It's much larger groups, I'm guessing. But I have to say that the vulnerability once one person becomes more vulnerable, everyone follows. And when, for example, Laurel, our organizational genius over here, when we saw her spreadsheet, yes. When we saw it, we were like, "Oh, my gosh, it's amazing." She's like, "I can send it to you."
Veronica: Yeah, yeah. And that was --it's like, "oh"
Courtney: "We don't gatekeep anything, we share everything,"
Veronica: Yeah, so that's the thing-- that right there, no gatekeeping. Right? So trust, trust 1,000%. I feel like and I don't know what your guys's opinion are, but I feel like once you become an entrepreneur, yeah, there's all kinds of obstacles we run into, right, so many obstacles we run into. But when you surround yourself in a community with like minded individuals, and like minded, I say with regards to wanting to grow, right, want that willingness to grow
Courtney: Success
Veronica: And success, right, their own version of success, that that willingness alone provides everyone with this opportunity to learn and grow from one another. And one thing that I have to say that I I agree with you with women surrounding each other, you know, being in the group, but one of the biggest hurdles, and I think I can already hear some of my listeners going "well, that's great for you, Veronica, Courtney, Amy and Laurel. But sometimes women are bitches. Women are competitive, women talk shit, women don't want to share," like, what was it exactly that like just kind of turned the switch on for you where you were able to go ahead and let down that guard and open up even though maybe you might open up and it might not be received?
Laurel: Well, I think that to answer the question around like competition, like because we are all in very different markets. We aren't set up as competitors. Well, maybe a tiny bit you and I Veronica, cause we're licensed, our businesses operate in the same state.
Veronica: I'm so glad you brought that up.
Laurel: I have never viewed you as a competitor? Like there's no, there's no pie we're dividing up here.
Veronica: Where is that then? So that part right there? Because I 1,000% agree with you. Yeah. What is that?
Courtney: Because there are some people that do unfortunately see, and not all businesses, some business owners that see others as competition for sure. I've met trying to network a lot with a lot of therapists that I am local to around Hoboken, New York City, and I would say, you know, a majority, it goes great. And, you know, especially with therapists, like, it's great to talk to other therapists and so on, but there's, you know, 10%, I'll meet with, and you can tell,
Veronica: How do you know?
Courtney: Oh, you know,
Veronica: So what do you do?
Courtney: You you be as friendly as you could in that, you know, coffee chat or whatever, and then you move on. And that's that, but you can tell that they, you know, I did, I did meet with one person that comes to mind, and she was very lovely, I'm sure, amazing therapist, but she literally said to my face, "you have a group practice, why would I refer anyone to you?" Like, like, like, because she was a single therapist, and I wouldn't even think of that being an issue at all. So I feel like enough to go around.
Laurel: We immediately had this spirit of generosity with each other. "Let me share this spreadsheet."
Amy: But you started that, but yes, it opened the floodgates, which was awesome.
Laurel: Yeah, like I share. And I would say over the last, it's been a year and a half, almost, we have probably collectively shared, like, at least six figures worth of business coaching tools, and like...
Courtney: I think, yeah, maybe it's also you know, some people will reach out and say, "hi, your business looks great. Can I pick your brain?" And that is different. Yeah, because it's very one sided. And we've never been that way: we always give and receive in our own ways. And that I think is what if you're listening to this and looking for this kind of mastermind, that's what you're looking for: people that are generous in their own way, and how they can help you, and you back... right like that you offer them stuff back, and they don't have to be equal. But you know, being open, everyone should be open in that way. So if it is what, feeling one sided, like you're mentoring someone, then that you know...
Laurel: There's a place for that! But that is not a mastermind group,
Courtney: A mastermind group somewhere that you're all dedicated and all growing and lifting each other up.
Laurel: A saying comes to mind, "if you think you're the smartest person in the room, pick a different room"
Veronica: Pick a different room. Yeah 1000%.
Courtney: Cause you can't learn from it.
Laurel: You know, in this room, there are people that are smarter than me at different things. So I want to be in this room. Mentorship, yeah, there's a place for that. But that positions you as the smartest person or the most experienced in the room and like, you're not going to get as much from that. I love giving back. I love paying my good fortune and all of the support I've gotten, I love paying that forward. That's not a mastermind.
Veronica: No, no.
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Veronica: So, let's go ahead and speak really quickly about mine and your relationship. So we are both in California. We're licensed in California, easily people would say I didn't even think about as we were walking--we just came back from a walk--and as we're walking it's like, Laurel had brought up "Oh, yeah, you know, well, people would see us as competitors." It had never even crossed my mind. Like as I'm walking I was like, "Oh shit. Yeah, we need to bring that up and we need to bring that up in that episode," but it is it is true and I had never seen you or any of you in that way. I see you guys as like, my, my tools in my toolbox that I knew I needed but I don't know where to find them.
Laurel: You guys have a reason I'm gonna get big.
Veronica: Fuck yeah! Hell yes.
Amy: And I really look forward to celebrating the hell out of that!
Courtney: Once Laurel makes a million dollars, she's hosting the next trip!
Amy: Until you try to save money again.
Veronica: You see how she snuck that one in Amy?
Amy: Laurel's gonna be successful with or without us. And we will celebrate it.
Laurel: No, if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together.
Veronica: Hell yeah. Hell yeah. So what would you say our... let's go to that next topic. I want you guys to think of-- I know this is totally on the spot. But I want you to think of "what is the one benefit? What's your one biggest benefit you receive from being in this group?"
Laurel: Owning a business can be a very lonely endeavor. Like, I adore my employees. Like they are incredible people. I think they're better therapists than me. But I'm the group owner. And at the end of the day, like I have to make hard decisions sometimes. That can be very isolating. I'm sure your listeners are like, "Yeah, it's hard to be the leader."
Courtney: Yeah, you can't be their friend.
Veronica: It's lonely! It is lonely.
Laurel: Yeah. You I mean, I won't love to be friends with my employees. But that's not appropriate. They're wonderful people. But, I when I have to make hard decisions, because of this group, I don't feel I'm making them alone. Yeah.
Veronica: Oh I love that. Damn it! I want tot steal that. I know. So good. All right, who's next? Because now I need to go last?
Courtney: Yeah, no, that's great. I mean, I think for me, it's where I'm not the strongest, right? And asking them for literal help of like, "something's on fire. literally don't know what to do. I've been holding this for a week,"
Veronica: "I've been holding it in like a fart." [all laugh]
Courtney: And this is what's happening. What do I say? Yeah, like, what do I literally do? And they literally every single time helped me to the T, like exact literally like what to say I write it down. And then I go do that. And they make me a better manager, a better boss, they definitely lift up my business so much. So you know, I think thank you for that. But yeah, that's the biggest and there's so much I've gotten out of this group, but that's the biggest thing: that I always know if shit hits the fan, this is where I'm common. And this is where I'm getting the advice. And then I'm taking the advice and doing it. And I'll report back, which is also nice.
Veronica: Absolutely.
Amy: I think for each of us, we've identified certain personality traits and certain tendencies and behaviors. And for me to hear from others who say, Amy, like, you're not thinking of sustainability or being too far on the generous side, or you're, you know, it's, it's like, you know me, and, and Courtney will be like, you know, you really don't need to have a $2,000 Zoom membership. Now, you can just use Google for free...
Courtney: It's free!
Amy: So there's, there's all kinds of things, but I really feel like when you get to know each other's personalities, and you know, like, I'm going to need strength when it comes to standing up for, you know,
Veronica: Whatever changes you're gonna make.
Amy: Changes I'm gonna make. Yeah.
Veronica: Yeah, the biggest thing that I would say I benefited from this group, god, I had, I had one. And I would say systems, like, I didn't know, you, when you're an entrepreneur, you know, obviously, you have to, you have to have systems in place. You can read so many books, but to actually see how these systems have helped each one of you grow your practice....and like, I'll ask you a question and it's like "Veronica, where are you going? Like, I don't know how you went from Cali to like Antarctica, like, bring your ass back to Cali." Or "Veronica? Hold on. Yes, we are gonna get to Antarctica, but instead of you like just getting up and running" and
Laurel: Did you bring your coat?
Veronica: Yeah. "Did you bring your coat?" because, and then on top of that, "Veronica, you're not wearing shoes, you're running to an article barefoot", because that's just that's me I'm like "fuck it let's go!" You know, and I really appreciate that. Like, my, my, I don't want to say weaknesses. But at the same time, I do like some of the weaknesses of the company. I know they're not weaknesses. And we could go into that all day. But like some of the areas that are challenging for me are brought to light and I'm able to get a full comprehensive plan on the systems that I need to put in place or the questions that I need to ask in order for me to get to that next level. And I wouldn't be able to do that by myself. Because although I'm like, obviously such a genius, there's no way there's no way I'd be able to get there. And just the amount of insight you guys have provided me. And I will say one more thing, and you guys are gonna love me and hate me for this question. So that's business. How has this group benefited you personally?
